In the second part of their conversation about the miniseries Little FIres Everywhere, Janet and Emily get a little nostalgic for the 90s, and discuss the time period of the show, the soundtrack and specific songs, other pop culture references and you get the idea. Take a trip down 90’s memory lane with us and let’s chat about this show some more. And if you missed, part one, it’s right over here.
Spoilers ahead!
Janet: I think Elena’s relationship with her husband is really interesting. And this could be because I love Joshua Jackson and I think he’s really hot, especially now. Did you watch Dawson’s Creek?
Emily: I never really watched it, but I knew that he was one of the dudes on Dawson’s Creek.
Janet: I didn’t watch it when it aired, but I did watch the entire series, a few years ago. You know, as an adult. But that show was important for a very specific time period and a specific audience and maybe it wasn’t the best, for example, Pacey was sleeping with teachers and…
Emily: Maybe not, but the actors probably didn’t have a lot to work with so they did the best they could with what they had, I mean, I think Michelle Williams is a genius.
Michelle Williams appreciation corner. In grad school, Janet and Emily saw Blue Valentine (Michelle Williams and Ryan Gosling) together in the theater and they both LOVE IT.
Janet: I agree, and you know this. Did you see Cruel Intentions?
Emily: Yes, yes.
Janet: So, we both know Reese Witherspoon and Joshua Jackson were both in that. And I remember a moment in Little Fires where Bill says to Elena something about having GOOD INTENTIONS and it felt like there was a pause for the audience as a wink/nod to Cruel Intentions.
Emily: We also have actors here who were acting in the 90s in teen roles who are now the parents in a series set in the 90s which is interesting and very pointed as well. I mean, let's get the Dawson's Creek dude to be the dad because…they clearly wanted this to be a recreation of the 90s, because that is when it’s set.
Janet: It’s obvious, that they really paid attention to everything and really thought about it. With the casting, the music, it’s the 90s. Do you even remember Bill at all in the book?
Emily: No.
Janet: Right, so he’s more built out in the series.
Emily: Ha! Bill is built out.
Janet: No pun intended, running around in his tighty-whities, I was very much into that.
Emily: That’s the part Janet watched again.
Janet: Maybe, maybe. But I did go back to rewatch the series, like I said. In addition to Joshua Jackson, haha, I really paid attention to the opening credits specifically the items that are set on fire and are being burned. All of these items are important to the story, for example we have a fortune cookie that goes rolling across the screen, Izzy’s violin, and also the plaid Keds Izzy’s forced to wear for the family Christmas picture.
Now, I’m not somebody who was into fire as a child or teenager, were you one of those people interested or fascinated by fire?
Emily: No. But maybe you’re about to come into your fire phase? Maybe you’re just a late bloomer.
Janet’s Five Favorite ‘Fire’ Songs:
“Burning for You” Blue Oyster Cult, 1981
“Burning Down the House” Talking Heads, 1983
“I’m on Fire” Bruce Springsteen, 1984
“Firestarter” The Prodigy, 1996
“Set Fire to the Rain” Adele, 2011
Janet: Who knows? But we know Izzy is throughout the book as well as the show. In the show she sets her hair on fire and, of course, in the book she is the one who sets the house on fire. She seemingly has pyromania.
Emily: I know that that’s a thing.
Janet: Right? I looked it up. It is in the DSM-V as an impulse control disorder with several criteria including “Deliberate and purposeful fire setting on more than one occasion.” Nevertheless, it’s a good metaphor for destruction and fighting the power.
Emily: Remind me, in the book does it say she did set the fire?
Janet: I looked, and in the beginning of the book they say Izzy burned it down, or maybe it’s just implied or assumed? I know I assumed that she did.
Trip, assumes Izzy did it, Little Fires Everywhere, page 12
Janet: Let’s talk about the music, because the soundtrack is so good and there’s a great Bustle article I found that gives a track listing for each episode. I know I’m older than you, but we were both very much alive in the 90s…
Emily: I was very conscious and aware of music and pop culture at this point…
Janet: The night the show premiered, I got so excited when I heard “Rain King” by the Counting Crows in the first episode, I stopped the episode, tweeted about it, and saw a lot of people were already discussing the music in the show.
And, the Counting Crows, I still remember using my birthday money to buy August and Everything After on CD in the mall, back when parents dropped us off on Saturdays. I bet my friends and I saw a movie that afternoon, too.
Emily: Beck was one of my favorites in elementary/middle/high school. I remember going to see Beck in concert for the first time (I saw him several times) around the time “Where It’s At” (episode 2) was his big single. So hearing that sound was a plus for me.
Janet: Also, the “Sex and Candy” cover at the end of the first episode. Man. It’s so stark and wonderful. Of course, the original holds a lot of memories—I remember making out with my boyfriend at the time in the back of my friend’s sister’s car—maybe it was actually December 1997, so I guess in an alternate universe the Richardson’s house was about to be torched.
Emily: Oh, and The Cardigans! “Lovefool” (episode 3). They actually opened up for Beck on that tour I was just talking about, so I saw them at the same show. So yeah, that was definitely a vibe.
Janet: Yes! So “Spin the Bottle” by The Juliana Hatfield 3 (episode 5)—they were the first group I saw at The New Daisy Theater on Beale and this was right after my first Beale Street Music Festival. I went to both with a new friend who was older and cool, I mean, she drove a gold Mitsubishi Eclipse, stick shift. Of course, we were all over downtown Memphis.
Emily: Also, Garbage. “I’m Only Happy When it Rains” (episode 7). Shirley Manson was like my idol when I was in high school, when I was in middle school…I’ve seen Garbage in concert several times. I actually met one of my best friends at a Garbage concert in New Orleans. Shout out to you, Elizabeth! But yeah, Garbage is one of the most important bands in my life ever. Just saying.
Emily’s queen, Shirley Manson
Janet: And there are other song covers too, what did you think about them?
Emily: So, I kinda talked about this earlier, But I think for me, they helped set the tone of the show where they were very consciously recreating the 90s, And they want us to be aware of that. It was the covers, but it was also little things like saying “oh, you should get the Rachel cut.” And yes, somebody would say that back then, but it was also a nod or a joke to the audience like, look how silly that haircut was in the 90s. You know what I mean?
Janet: Mmmhmm.
Emily: Nothing seemed campy or unrealistic, but there were little things to make us know this was nostalgia at play. And the covers were part of that, so for me that really worked.
Janet: Another thing from the time period, which is not in the book, but only in the show—we have the book club Elena belongs to reading The Vagina Monologues.
Emily: Yes! Because Janet and I have seen The Vagina Monologues together.
Janet: Twice, we went at least twice in grad school.
Emily: I think the name sounds abrasive, and I guess there are some sections of it that are, but overall, I don't feel like it's subversive. It's just about female empowerment, and I think it was just another way to show how ‘not woke’ these women were that is does scandalize them so much because it’s not that scandalous at all. I think it’s important and thought-provoking, but I don’t think it’s so out there.
Janet: Well, when they are talking about the book in the group, they have one conversation about how the most important thing about the vagina is being a mother...I think this just helps the audience know more about Elena and maybe how she feels about her own sexuality. Remember, she will only have sex with her husband on Wednesdays and Saturdays…
Emily: And even their kids know that, too.
Janet: Right? But I do remember wanting to read The Vagina Monologues back then, late 90s, going to Barnes & Noble, not being able to find it on the shelf, and then having to go up to the register in front of everybody to ask for them to order it for me…It was award-winning, I don’t know why they didn’t have it in the store.
So maybe I can understand how they are acting in the show, but they are grown women. You’re right. Why so scandalous?
Here is where the author gets her cameo in the show, Celeste Ng (in pink) with a copy of The Vagina Monologues.
Janet: What did you think about any other added material in the show? For example, Elena’s past. I really got into that part the second time I watched it.
Emily: It was eluded to in the book, so I guess to me it didn’t feel added because I already projected that on to her already, I knew what her past was like.
Janet: And this is mostly episode 5, “Duo” that starts with Elena in 1976 in Paris…
Emily: Um, we know she already had loftier goals for herself and then she had these kids and she wasn’t able to do that, that’s all from the book. But we get to see it all dramatized more. And it was well done. AnnaSophia Robb was great.
Channeling a baby Reese Witherspoon
Janet: Yes! She was so good, too. Are you satisfied with the ending of the book or the show?
Emily: It made me sad. But I think it's okay to be sad at the end of things.
Janet: You know I agree with you on that and I don’t know why some people don’t feel that way. I’m all about sad, destruction, people not knowing what they are going to do. I mean, the audience maybe getting an idea, but not really finding out what will happen next.
Emily: I think there are different types of ways to resolve things. One way you can resolve things is by tying everything up and making everything happy. I feel like that's less satisfactory because that doesn’t seem real and that doesn’t give the space to imagine what will happen next, because I don’t care anymore.
Janet: Right.
Emily: I think the more interesting way to resolve things, is to stop whatever is the current status quo in the story and make the characters change. And that can be sad, that can be uplifting. But I think change can be resolution without closing everything off.
Janet: Right. Like in the show, Mia and Pearl end up going to Mia’s parents’ house. That doesn’t happen in the book. And I can’t remember what happens with Bebe, if she kidnaps May Ling after the court case.
Emily: In the show, the court proceedings follow the book to a T. Including when Bebe breaks into the McCullough’s house and steals back her child.
Janet: Okay. And I have seen people online wondering if there’s going to be a season two of the show, and I’m like, no there does not need to be a season two!
Emily: I agree. Just because things don’t end happily doesn’t mean we need more. Leave it alone. Let these people do other projects that you’ll also watch and love. Let’s learn from the second season of Big Little Lies and don’t do too much of a good thing.
Thanks so much Janet for joining me to chat about this show! And about our favorite decade!